What Comes First, Freedom or Happiness?
One fine morning I sent a txt to some of my friends asking what comes first.. Freedom or Happiness..
Parry – Freedom
Pranishka to Parry – is freedom happiness?
Parry to Pranishka – perhaps we may need to agree on what happiness is? Is it eating a custard pie and knowing how to enjoy it or is it creating that sensation of winning the runners up prize at the local camping shop and winning a back pack!! Hahahahahaha
At this point our conversation digressed into custard tarts and butterscotch lollies :) brilliant..
Omar – Freedom is Happiness
Pranishka to Omar – But you can have happiness without freedom and freedom without happiness
Omar – Absolutely, but a balance of both is a blissful situation
Vas-e
Hey Prani,
I was thinking about your question during my train ride to work this morning, and I think
"freedom" is a state of ones situation and environment, and
"happiness" is a state of mind, and one can almost chose to be happy regardless of their situation.
So I don't think that one necessarily has to come before the other, nor does one necessarily have to impact the other. Having said that I acknowledge that for most people, the more freedoms one has, perhaps the easier it is to be happy. However, I've also noticed myself that when I'm content and happy, more opportunities come my way, and I'm also more willing (or have the freedom) to take more risks. All of which makes me more happy, and so the cycle continues. On the flip side though, the cycle must also work in the opposite direction.
Thanks for the thought provoking text.
Have a great day.
Love,
Vas-E
Pranishka Nayagar wrote:
Here are some perspectives people :) there is no right and wrong answer obviously… but its interesting to hear what people having been saying…
we are now getting into absolutes vs variances…
To me,both happiness and freedom is an energy which is similar to how your context of a state of mind vas-e…
And personally, even if I attribute experiences to these particular words, I find that they leave a very similar residual feeling..
can you distinguish the difference in feelings in the moment and afterwards?
-----Original Message-----
From: Avinash Rugoobur
Subject: Re: FW: What comes first.. Freedom or Happines...
Freedom is not being bound to anything and belonging to nobody. Freedom is complete detachment from life and fear death. This is absolute freedom. We are completely free when we can give our life to something we believe is right without hesitation.
Happiness is a temporary state of mind enjoyed through blissful moments, such as hearing a child laugh. But, to me, happiness is not freedom. Happiness can exist without freedom, but when freedom exists it is happiness.
Vas-e
Nice work Nash ! As always you put it so eliquently ... dare I say Obama like !!
Neals
Hmmm custard tarts! Haha
Okay i’ll have a stab at your question.
Happiness comes and goes and freedom doesn’t really exist unless you have no possessions no one to care about and are not governed by anything. Sorry to put a downer on things, haha
Perhaps true happiness is experienced when shared and you belong to something i.e. family or partner.
However being in that situation means that you are not free and constrained to that something at the same time.
So, maybe you can’t have happiness and freedom (as it doesn’t really exist) at the same time or after each other, because to be free you need to be lone wolf ones. emphasis on the lone part. You become unhappy when alone.
Anyway i guess its dependant on what peoples own definition and perception of the two are. People might think happiness is laughter and freedom is the weekend off. Some may think freedom is no responsibilities and happiness is a choice they make to their state of mind and thats all (haha I choo choo choose to be happy, even tho their life is mud).
Blah blah blah.........yadaa yadaa yadaa..... haha
Arrrrrrggggghhhhhh what is happiness and what is freedom????????????? BOOOOMMMMM BRAIN OVERLOAD EXPLOSION!!!!!!!!!!!! SPLAT! LOL
Thanks for the thought provoking question.
Neals :)
Pranishka wrote ...
Aight Obama!
On consciousness and awareness..
We’ve talked about this before I think nash.. :)
There could be people who could already have this absolute freedom but don’t even know it or recognise it? And end up in the grass is greener scenario.. seeking these things elsewhere..
and Neals you bring up a good point on definitions… and a very a very interesting point on freedom as not having possessions, no one to care about and not governed by anything…
-----Original Message-----
From: Aurélie Charenton
Subject: RE: What comes first.. Freedom or Happines...
I can't resist the temptation to drop into the conversation.
First, I think we can make a distinction between happiness and joy. To me, happiness is a long-lasting state of mind whereas joy is something ephemeral and spontaneous. Happiness is a feeling, joy is an emotion. Joy can provide the illusion of happiness or simply add to your happiness.
Freedom seems to be the shortest way to happiness. What better sensation that the one of feeling free and therefore have no limits, no hurdles to prevent you from being happy ? But, with freedom comes responsibility. This may sound weird to some people who might think that responsibility actually results in limiting your freedom. This is true is you are responsible for others (family, employees...). But freedom brings responsiblity for yourself and your own actions. When you're free, you make your own choices and decisions and therefore are responsible for the consequences...even theses only impact your own life.
If true happiness is found in being the Master of your own destiny (to use big words) or more simply to be able to chose your own path in Life, therefore Freedom has to come first. But, if you are a bit more ambitious and more utopist, like me, and think that true happiness resides in being happy IN SPITE OF all the difficulties and limitations that our society implies, Freedom is not necessarily a prerequisite to happiness.
I hope this is not too far from the initial question,
Aurélie
Pranishka wrote..
A very warm welcome to this conversation Aurelie!!! :)
Hmmmmmmm wow I’m feeling your last comments..
Can they not both coexist… You can still be the master of your fate as Henley describes and be a Utopian…
Let me try something… because I would use freedom in the same context as the way you have described happiness..
Isn’t it also true that:
If true freedom is found in being the Master of your own destiny (to use big words) or more simply to be able to chose your own path in Life,
True freedom resides in being free IN SPITE OF all the difficulties and limitations that our society implies…
Lol ok it’s the definitions that I’m really struggling with at the moment….
Aurélie
Pranishka, I like your application of this definition of happiness to the notion of Freedom.
But as you said and as it is in every discussions, it all comes down to the definitions of the concepts we want to use.
Once it's clear that happiness is different from joy, its defintion seems pretty clear.
Defining True Freedom is definitely more difficult for me. Do we speak of mere material freedom (I have time, money, technology to do what I want.) ? I think this is not Freedom but 'possibility'. It makes more sense to speak of True Freedom as in 'Free Will'. I actually prefer the French translation of 'Free will' = 'Le libre arbitre'. Litterally 'Libre arbitre' translates into 'free umpire/referee'. Therefore, the French express more the idea of 'choice' or 'decision' whereas the English emphasizes the idea of will. I like to think that 'true freedom' is the ability to make your own decision, the one you think right rather than just ollowing your will or desires.
Therefore, True Freedom is not only being free to overcome the limitations of living in a certain environment but ALSO to overcome the limitations coming from ourselves (being our fears, our habits, sense of comfort, short term satisfaction...).
Having defined what True Freedom is according to me, I still don't have a clear answer on whether or not it has to come before happiness ;-)
Again, I'm afraid I got carried away here or simply stated the obvious. I wish I could remember more of my high school philosophy classes !
Vas-e
I think I've got it Prani,
Freedom = the ability to have this discussion without hesitation
Happiness = having all of your as my family
:)
One Love,
Vas-E
One fine morning I sent a txt to some of my friends asking what comes first.. Freedom or Happiness..
Parry – Freedom
Pranishka to Parry – is freedom happiness?
Parry to Pranishka – perhaps we may need to agree on what happiness is? Is it eating a custard pie and knowing how to enjoy it or is it creating that sensation of winning the runners up prize at the local camping shop and winning a back pack!! Hahahahahaha
At this point our conversation digressed into custard tarts and butterscotch lollies :) brilliant..
Omar – Freedom is Happiness
Pranishka to Omar – But you can have happiness without freedom and freedom without happiness
Omar – Absolutely, but a balance of both is a blissful situation
Vas-e
Hey Prani,
I was thinking about your question during my train ride to work this morning, and I think
"freedom" is a state of ones situation and environment, and
"happiness" is a state of mind, and one can almost chose to be happy regardless of their situation.
So I don't think that one necessarily has to come before the other, nor does one necessarily have to impact the other. Having said that I acknowledge that for most people, the more freedoms one has, perhaps the easier it is to be happy. However, I've also noticed myself that when I'm content and happy, more opportunities come my way, and I'm also more willing (or have the freedom) to take more risks. All of which makes me more happy, and so the cycle continues. On the flip side though, the cycle must also work in the opposite direction.
Thanks for the thought provoking text.
Have a great day.
Love,
Vas-E
Pranishka Nayagar wrote:
Here are some perspectives people :) there is no right and wrong answer obviously… but its interesting to hear what people having been saying…
we are now getting into absolutes vs variances…
To me,both happiness and freedom is an energy which is similar to how your context of a state of mind vas-e…
And personally, even if I attribute experiences to these particular words, I find that they leave a very similar residual feeling..
can you distinguish the difference in feelings in the moment and afterwards?
-----Original Message-----
From: Avinash Rugoobur
Subject: Re: FW: What comes first.. Freedom or Happines...
Freedom is not being bound to anything and belonging to nobody. Freedom is complete detachment from life and fear death. This is absolute freedom. We are completely free when we can give our life to something we believe is right without hesitation.
Happiness is a temporary state of mind enjoyed through blissful moments, such as hearing a child laugh. But, to me, happiness is not freedom. Happiness can exist without freedom, but when freedom exists it is happiness.
Vas-e
Nice work Nash ! As always you put it so eliquently ... dare I say Obama like !!
Neals
Hmmm custard tarts! Haha
Okay i’ll have a stab at your question.
Happiness comes and goes and freedom doesn’t really exist unless you have no possessions no one to care about and are not governed by anything. Sorry to put a downer on things, haha
Perhaps true happiness is experienced when shared and you belong to something i.e. family or partner.
However being in that situation means that you are not free and constrained to that something at the same time.
So, maybe you can’t have happiness and freedom (as it doesn’t really exist) at the same time or after each other, because to be free you need to be lone wolf ones. emphasis on the lone part. You become unhappy when alone.
Anyway i guess its dependant on what peoples own definition and perception of the two are. People might think happiness is laughter and freedom is the weekend off. Some may think freedom is no responsibilities and happiness is a choice they make to their state of mind and thats all (haha I choo choo choose to be happy, even tho their life is mud).
Blah blah blah.........yadaa yadaa yadaa..... haha
Arrrrrrggggghhhhhh what is happiness and what is freedom????????????? BOOOOMMMMM BRAIN OVERLOAD EXPLOSION!!!!!!!!!!!! SPLAT! LOL
Thanks for the thought provoking question.
Neals :)
Pranishka wrote ...
Aight Obama!
On consciousness and awareness..
We’ve talked about this before I think nash.. :)
There could be people who could already have this absolute freedom but don’t even know it or recognise it? And end up in the grass is greener scenario.. seeking these things elsewhere..
and Neals you bring up a good point on definitions… and a very a very interesting point on freedom as not having possessions, no one to care about and not governed by anything…
-----Original Message-----
From: Aurélie Charenton
Subject: RE: What comes first.. Freedom or Happines...
I can't resist the temptation to drop into the conversation.
First, I think we can make a distinction between happiness and joy. To me, happiness is a long-lasting state of mind whereas joy is something ephemeral and spontaneous. Happiness is a feeling, joy is an emotion. Joy can provide the illusion of happiness or simply add to your happiness.
Freedom seems to be the shortest way to happiness. What better sensation that the one of feeling free and therefore have no limits, no hurdles to prevent you from being happy ? But, with freedom comes responsibility. This may sound weird to some people who might think that responsibility actually results in limiting your freedom. This is true is you are responsible for others (family, employees...). But freedom brings responsiblity for yourself and your own actions. When you're free, you make your own choices and decisions and therefore are responsible for the consequences...even theses only impact your own life.
If true happiness is found in being the Master of your own destiny (to use big words) or more simply to be able to chose your own path in Life, therefore Freedom has to come first. But, if you are a bit more ambitious and more utopist, like me, and think that true happiness resides in being happy IN SPITE OF all the difficulties and limitations that our society implies, Freedom is not necessarily a prerequisite to happiness.
I hope this is not too far from the initial question,
Aurélie
Pranishka wrote..
A very warm welcome to this conversation Aurelie!!! :)
Hmmmmmmm wow I’m feeling your last comments..
Can they not both coexist… You can still be the master of your fate as Henley describes and be a Utopian…
Let me try something… because I would use freedom in the same context as the way you have described happiness..
Isn’t it also true that:
If true freedom is found in being the Master of your own destiny (to use big words) or more simply to be able to chose your own path in Life,
True freedom resides in being free IN SPITE OF all the difficulties and limitations that our society implies…
Lol ok it’s the definitions that I’m really struggling with at the moment….
Aurélie
Pranishka, I like your application of this definition of happiness to the notion of Freedom.
But as you said and as it is in every discussions, it all comes down to the definitions of the concepts we want to use.
Once it's clear that happiness is different from joy, its defintion seems pretty clear.
Defining True Freedom is definitely more difficult for me. Do we speak of mere material freedom (I have time, money, technology to do what I want.) ? I think this is not Freedom but 'possibility'. It makes more sense to speak of True Freedom as in 'Free Will'. I actually prefer the French translation of 'Free will' = 'Le libre arbitre'. Litterally 'Libre arbitre' translates into 'free umpire/referee'. Therefore, the French express more the idea of 'choice' or 'decision' whereas the English emphasizes the idea of will. I like to think that 'true freedom' is the ability to make your own decision, the one you think right rather than just ollowing your will or desires.
Therefore, True Freedom is not only being free to overcome the limitations of living in a certain environment but ALSO to overcome the limitations coming from ourselves (being our fears, our habits, sense of comfort, short term satisfaction...).
Having defined what True Freedom is according to me, I still don't have a clear answer on whether or not it has to come before happiness ;-)
Again, I'm afraid I got carried away here or simply stated the obvious. I wish I could remember more of my high school philosophy classes !
Vas-e
I think I've got it Prani,
Freedom = the ability to have this discussion without hesitation
Happiness = having all of your as my family
:)
One Love,
Vas-E
